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Medium Dawn Felagund of the Fountain

Two Questions

The (Cyber) Bag of Weasels

bread and puppet




"About as much fun as a bag of weasels"...when I first saw this Irish adage, it made me think of the life of a writer: sometimes perilous, sometimes painful, certainly interesting. My paper journal has always been called "The Bag of Weasels." This is the Bag of Weasels' online home.

Two Questions

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can of worms
While I'm being a pest towards my flist, I might as well not stop while I'm ahead, right?

The first question: Does anyone have a reasonable grasp of Telerin? I need some Telerin names for some of my AMC characters who feature in upcoming chapters, but I'm crap at Telerin and haven't found a word list yet to help. Or is it acceptable to use Noldorin names? I have seen this recommended before, but since I have flisters who actually known something about Tolkien's languages beside how to type "www.elffetish.com" into their browsers, then I thought I'd ask the expert opinions of those who have actually studied Tolkien's languages.

Secondly, is there anyone out there willing to torment, a.k.a. beta, a short story for me? I'm in no hurry, as it takes me forever to revise (just ask Jenni, who's currently doing AMC for me without yet seeing a single revised chapter for all her hard work :^/), and I really want someone to be as harsh as they need to be to make my work better. You can email me at DawnFelagund@comcast.net or leave me a comment if you're interested.

So, once again, thank you to my perpetually helpful flist! :)
  • if it is a short story and you have plenty of time I can do it for you. Ask Enis about my harshness as a beta ;) I am not kind and rarely agree to do it as few can handle my style of betaing*g*
    • Thanks so much! I do have plenty of time, as it takes me forever to motivate myself to revise anything. I will email it to you later today! Thanks again. :)
  • Afaik, Telerin was fairly similar to Noldorin Quenya. If I remember correctly, the Teleri kept the th when it developed into s with most of the Noldor (so, e.g., the moon would be ithil with them, as it was with the Sindar (and the Fëanorians), instead of the more common Noldorin isil). But namewise, they should probably be named fairly similar to the Noldor. Except for the th.
    .... did that help at all? And I'm not even sure, as it's been a while since I checked the Shibboleth and I don't have it here...
    *flails*
    • I'd say that the conflation of the labiovelars and bilabials (Quenya qu and p were both equivalent to Telerin p, for example) and the preservation in some Telerin contexts of old b where Quenya shifted it to v would also be important differences, to be certain.
    • Thank you. :) *throws life preserver* The thorn/S rule is one of the few that I know, seeing as I'm a bona fide Feanatic and the whole story of Feanor really started with that little linguistic glitch.

      I could name them in Noldorin, but then there's always this perfectionist fear that Someone Wise Is Going to Notice. :^P And I am so bad with the Elvish languages!
  • I'd be more than happy to at least try and help with the Telerin names (shoot me an IM at Vardilme on AIM, an email to lalwen at gmail, or a comment in my journal, and we'll have a nice chat about what feel you're going for, not to mention how many of what gender). HoME 12 (currently sitting on my dresser) and Ardalambion should between them provide enough material. :)
    • Thanks so much! *throws flowers at your feet* One would think that having a Feanor!muse would predispose me to Elvish languages, but I am so bad with them....

      I will email you later today. (No IM at work, unfortunately!)
  • I've been struggling with the Telerin thing myself lately, and even asked Claudio about it. He said it shouldn't be too hard, as long as one has a wordlist, but then he's good at that stuff. I've found quite a few worldlists online just by typing in 'Telerin wordlist' but who knows how reliable they are: I'm also a bit worried that there might be Subtle Linguistic Issues in bunging the words together.

    I think it would be acceptable to use Noldorin names in the "very few people would actually notice or care" sense, but I bet there would be differences that any experts would notice and spot. I mean they supposedly called Varda Baradis, etc.
    • I'm also a bit worried that there might be Subtle Linguistic Issues in bunging the words together.

      That's exactly my fear. As far as Tolkienverse goes, languages rank very low in terms of how much I know about them. Actually, I'm in Claudio's debt because--without his Elvish name tutorials--I would have never gotten past the adjective+wen(de) method of naming my OFCs. (Annawende...*blushes*)

      And as soon as I take a shortcut and think no one will notice, someone does, so I thought to cover all my bases first this time.
      • Well, you could take a shortcut and put in a disclaimer in an author's note. But actually having someone notice and complain might be good--they might fix the names for you.
  • I wanted suggest Claudio, but I see Tehta already did it.
    I think no one really knows Telerin, but something could be done.
    Eventually I could ask on Elendili JRRT board. Galadhorn is there, he is specialist from languages invented by Tolkien (he stands behind the Fellowship of the Word Smiths), other maniacs are on the board as well.
    Wesron Speakers' Corner is at the bottom: http://elendili.pl/index.php
    • Thanks so much for that offer! You are too kind! I have kaikias-the-wise-in-languages helping me out, but I really appreciate the offer.

      (And I will check out those links in depth sometime and try to remedy my atrocious grasp of Elvish! :^P)
  • If you need a beta, I'm always happy to help out if I can. Uni work is fine at present, so I'd certainly have time if you wanted me to take on something. :) So feel free to poke me with this or any other short stories! :D
    • Thank you so much! I really appreciate this. Usually, I work without a beta, but I actually like this story which makes me ever more frightened and paranoid that it is actually awful, so I decided to seek other opinions this time. ;)

      And I love your icon! *huggles little bee...carefully, so as not to get stung*
  • Wow! I thought I'd wade in and try to help, but I see that there are a few people who really know what they're talking about! I was going to suggest that you contact Claudio anyway, as he has a real feel for names, as you know. And I love it when you're a pest because you're never a pest at all! You always come up with the most interesting questions! I find that I now have to ask a stupid question and I think I will post it in my LJ and see what happens.
    • I find my LJ is a great place to make inquiries because I'm blessed with a flist that actually seems to know what's going on! ;) Seriously, I have so many intelligent and well-spoken people on my flist that I sometimes get lazy and--rather than look it up myself--suffice to ask away!

      Sometimes, though, my questions open up a can of worms, so I've learned to ask them only when I have time to stuff the worms back in the can, one by one....

      I'm clearly very hungry with low blood sugar. Pardon my silliness, and I'm off to eat lunch! :^P
  • I'm much too late to offer any assistance, but I just wanted to squee that I'm not the only one to worry about Elven languages and names! I spent several hours on Ardalambion working with the Telerin pages when I was working on my FAME story (which I will finish, I swear!). Since, after all, Arafinwe named his first two sons in Telerin, and his wife must have originally been named in Telerin, Gaiaruen/Gaiarwen (or probably Aiaruen/Aiarwen if Tolkien had edited his grammar again to match the Appendices, according to Helge). So I gave his other kids Telerin epesses as well. I had to look at the way they Sindarize and their primitive roots, and it turned into an entire afternoon's project and was fun fun fun! And Orodreth is a pain and much as I love Silm canon I'm so tempted to toss him out of this generation...

    Ooops, I'm babbling. Bad me! Anyway, Telerin names are totally cool! *squees*
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